Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Talk about Sarah's upcoming game in the Rebuild series.

Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Ashilana » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:16 am

nskral wrote: Even it is not going to be at least I want to decide my own character(hero, leader?) do, I want him have buddies but I don't want to get him married with other men.


This is a valid point. I think the player should have some agency in the the leader's romantic interests. In fact, I would go farther and suggest always asking the player earlier than the marriage window. A player may want the leader to be straight, bi or a gay/lesbian, but that doesn't mean they want the leader to be interested in whoever they happen to hang around.

On the topic of agency, it would be nice to be able to select skeptic or devout for the leader and not have these traits be randomly assigned (or randomly gained during the game).
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Root » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:02 am

Ashilana wrote:
nskral wrote: Even it is not going to be at least I want to decide my own character(hero, leader?) do, I want him have buddies but I don't want to get him married with other men.


This is a valid point. I think the player should have some agency in the the leader's romantic interests. In fact, I would go farther and suggest always asking the player earlier than the marriage window. A player may want the leader to be straight, bi or a gay/lesbian, but that doesn't mean they want the leader to be interested in whoever they happen to hang around.

On the topic of agency, it would be nice to be able to select skeptic or devout for the leader and not have these traits be randomly assigned (or randomly gained during the game).

Yeah, as bothered as I am by homophobia, I agree that the leader should be more under player control. Randomizing the leader's identity and religious views doesn't work great for me.

I'd actually like the leader to have more personality traits. Friendly, stinky, easy-going, and so on would be nice to personalize the main character as the game goes on.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby CatDeville » Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:38 pm

I think that some folks are being a bit homophobic about this. Same sex people exist all over the world. When you have a same sex couple want to get married you have the option to deny them the ability to do so. I applaud Ms. Northway for acknowledging a reality of life in her game by adding these real relationships to her relationship matrix. If you don't like it, you can always forbid them from getting married. Unlike real life, you're the leader, so you get to make the rules.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby nskral » Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:33 am

Well, I didn't know we can forbid getting maried in-game, can we forbid one by one or I have to forbid them all as a policy? Can I forbid getting married for all people? Or can I forbid them same-sex marriage as a policy? That can be implemented to the game like tihs actually, this can increase your relationship with some factions and decrease relationship with some other factions. (One of them is already in-game I hope, right?)
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Objection » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:21 am

You can forbid one by one, although I've never disallowed a marriage so I don't know exactly what happens when you do that.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Shining Hector » Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:35 pm

Basically both survivors take a huge happiness hit, and that's it. Maybe the whole colony gets sad, I didn't pay that much attention. No upshot, explanation, or mitigation; you just have a couple of suicidally unhappy survivors. There's absolutely nothing to be gained and plenty to lose by forbidding a marriage, I'm really not sure what the point of leaving it as an option is.

Hopefully it gets fleshed out more or marriage gets tossed out altogether (I'm with JerZ in thinking that it doesn't make a lot of sense in the setting, and it's really none of my business, anyway).
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Root » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:22 pm

Shining Hector wrote:There's absolutely nothing to be gained and plenty to lose by forbidding a marriage...

I'll just leave that there.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Shining Hector » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:00 pm

More grandstanding, that's new.

There are less ham-handed ways to make a political statement. It doesn't come across as a piercing social commentary, just a broken game mechanic that doesn't really have any reason to be there.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby nskral » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:16 am

Does anyone looked this measure as implementing it as a policy like as it is a threat to repopulating the world(more lgbt people means there is a suitable environment for encouraging them so it will decrease number of normal families[like if a person thinks it is normal he/she can be lgbt but if he/she less likely to go against other] ) and decreases morale of devout survivors? Our survivors can eat other people, worship zombies, but can't discriminate lgbt? I think they shouldn't be sorry if some people think they can be discriminated as a incident in-game.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Caelann » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:11 am

"normal families" :|

Most of this thread is really just a very thinly-veiled attempt at engaging in homophobia, but still, I'll bite. Here are my thoughts:

- the main character's relationship choices (and subsequently their orientation) should be fully in our control. One might be quick to say that "only homophobes would be bothered if their main character fell in love with someone of their gender" but there's the other side of the coin too, which is perhaps something that cannot as easily be hand-waved: a gay or lesbian player who wishes their main character to also be gay/lesbian might find them wanting to marry someone of another gender.

- likewise, the main character's religion (or lack thereof) should be fully in our control. I'm sure atheist players would like their avatar to be just as atheist, and that religious players would like their avatar to be just as religious. Not to say that you absolutely need your main character to follow your own ideology or to have your own identity, of course, but as it currently stands we have no control over it either way.

- there is currently too high a penalty for denying a marriage. I can understand it for survivors -- after all, they only have a chance to get married if you specifically pair them up, and you can avoid them ever marrying by just not pairing them up -- but it's in the main character that this becomes a problem, as said above.

- there seems to be some badly disguised homophobia in the stories for certain survivors who are religious. I'm not sure if this is necessary. I'm not sure if it is even constructive? I mean, I'm supposed to actually like my survivors, but if one of them goes on about how some survivors are the "wrong" kind (currently not specifying in what way they're wrong, but I'll take a guess), I'm probably going to stop liking them, and I don't see how that is a good thing. I'm not a "Devil's advocate", I don't condone homophobia, I don't want anything to do with homophobic people, and to be honest, I'm tempted to just send these survivors to their demise and re-roll a less bigoted survivor elsewhere.

(also, I would be glad to see some religious characters who are actually decent people for once, so I'd personally prefer some more supportive attitudes and less bigotry, even if it doesn't erase real world prejudice coming from Christianity. I'm tired of all narratives about LGBT+ people being ultimately tragic and hostile instead of uplifting)

- About marriage equality as a policy: no. Nope. Marriage equality should be a human right. And the argument that marriage equality somehow impacts re-population is preposterous because not only is being LGBT+ not some sort of "infectious disease" or a "lifestyle" one can be "converted to" the way some people seem to be implying, but also gay and lesbian people aren't just going to accept a forced straight marriage because we need children. That's inhumane. If marriage equality is outlawed, they'll just continue to be gay and lesbian without marrying, and there will still be no children. So, congratulations, you accomplished absolutely nothing while being a jerkass.

(not to mention that gay and lesbian people can reproduce via other methods; bi people exist; and transgender people who don't transition also exist) (as for a happiness penalty for devout survivors... can we not for once have religious people who aren't shitty excuses for human beings? Please. It can't possibly be that difficult)

- About turning off "LGBT+ themes": only if I get an option to turn off hetero themes, too. 8-)
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