Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Talk about Sarah's upcoming game in the Rebuild series.

Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby DominateEye » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:49 pm

This, right here, is a fascinating discussion. I think that it has gone a little off-topic, beyond just Rebuild and onto games and simulations and opinions and beliefs as a whole, and so its usefulness and relevance to this forum should come into question, but whatever, that's not my call to make.

As for Rebuild being a zed-killing simulator first and foremost? I don't think so.

The way I interpret it, R:GoD is a society management simulator which includes the very big problem of zombies. The zed, to me, are little more in this game than a style choice, akin to putting a different wallpaper up. You could replace the zombies and all zombie-related text and imagery with rogue robots and it would still more or less be the same game.

On the topic of the toggle-switch feature, I personally believe that censorship, in all of its forms, which this feature would qualify as, is bad. Therefore, I would oppose any sort of "adult themes" censor option in this game, as I believe that these "adult themes" enhance the game and make it a better simulation. I think that the Rebuild series is the most realistic depiction of human interaction in a post-apocalyptic society that I have ever seen, at least on the "settling down" front.

In theory, due to the nature of gaming and distribution platforms today, Rebuild could be in a state of infinite, permanent development. While that may not be economically viable, it is certainly possible to pursue, and thus, multiple versions of the game and multiple features could be implemented. If Sarah opens up the game to Steam Workshop, as I believe is planned, a very quick and easy platform for mod distribution could be created, and if there were no limits, the OP, with enough knowledge of programming, could create his own mod that basically removes MOGAI (Marginalised Orientations, Genders And Intersex-- sorry to bring in another acronym, but I prefer it to LGBT+) individuals from the game entirely, and Sarah would not be held accountable for it, and anyone who has issues with it would be forced to speak to the developer of the mod, who may ignore any complaints regarding the purpose of the mod if they so wish.

Therefore.

I believe that a solution to the problem encountered by the OP would be to ensure Steam Workshop support, and for someone to create a mod removing the content the OP finds objectionable. Not only would, I believe, this satisfy the OP, but it would also allow for a theoretically infinite amount of customisation of the game by its players.

Any objections to my presented solution?
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Kizzycocoa » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:37 am

while that does seem a viable option, that would entail a TON of reworking and recoding.

I don't disagree that it could be the best answer, but the strain on sarah would be much larger, needing to make sure everything is modifiable.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby DominateEye » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:42 pm

Well... why couldn't the more computer-literate of us help out? Nothing major, of course, but small things (not sure what those small things would be). Still, though. I'm sure some of us would be happy to help.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Ashilana » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:00 pm

I am just amazed that this is still up for discussion.

Seriously, Hulu ads for Android phones have a cute marriage proposal between two guys in their montage...

In this day how does someone expect to block out the existence of gays, lesbians or trans folks? (there is much less visibility for intersex folks, so I will skip that) Walk into the children's section of a random bookstore and you will find totally benign board books. Yes, board books, the one ones that are made to be chewed on. If you think you need a filter to block out content appropriate for a three year old, I don't even know what to say.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Kizzycocoa » Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:59 am

Ashilana wrote:I am just amazed that this is still up for discussion.

Seriously, Hulu ads for Android phones have a cute marriage proposal between two guys in their montage...

In this day how does someone expect to block out the existence of gays, lesbians or trans folks? (there is much less visibility for intersex folks, so I will skip that) Walk into the children's section of a random bookstore and you will find totally benign board books. Yes, board books, the one ones that are made to be chewed on. If you think you need a filter to block out content appropriate for a three year old, I don't even know what to say.

Quite honestly, I completely agree.

However, even though I agree and have a personal interest in this, I'm not about to deny reality. Some people are still not tolerant of it. I still think an in-game policy would be ideal, as it takes that reality, and embeds it into the game as a small sideshow in a way that does not massively offend either party.

Ideally, I'd love for everyone to be more accepting. To be thought of as something less than human by some is, depressing. But that day is a fair ways off for now. ._.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Ashilana » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:14 am

Kizzycocoa wrote: I still think an in-game policy would be ideal, as it takes that reality, and embeds it into the game as a small sideshow in a way that does not massively offend either party.



I think this might be best option to appease the offended people, but it would put Sarah Northway in the unfortunate position of having to illustrate what such a policy would actually entail.

Since this is a game that allows you to practice cannibalism (at least I think it is, I have never selected that policy for criminals or traded for food with the pig farmers), a policy that allows you to exclude people from your fort is actually rather tame as far as adult content goes, even if it does allude to survivor deaths as a result.

So, although a policy would put the choice in the hands of the player, Sarah Northway would have to write the events and i feels kind of cruddy to pressure an artist to add something so depressing to their work.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Kizzycocoa » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:28 am

Ashilana wrote:I think this might be best option to appease the offended people, but it would put Sarah Northway in the unfortunate position of having to illustrate what such a policy would actually entail.

Since this is a game that allows you to practice cannibalism (at least I think it is, I have never selected that policy for criminals or traded for food with the pig farmers), a policy that allows you to exclude people from your fort is actually rather tame as far as adult content goes, even if it does allude to survivor deaths as a result.

So, although a policy would put the choice in the hands of the player, Sarah Northway would have to write the events and i feels kind of cruddy to pressure an artist to add something so depressing to their work.

While I can see what your point is, I must say that to simply add the marriage mechanic leads down this road, no matter who is married. I am expecting suicides of surviving partners in the future, when/if the feature is fleshed out.

I also expect more grim details on the pig farmers, particularly if we're able to investigate them in future (I do the exact same thing! never traded for food!).
In some ways, this content would be much easier to write compared to other content.

Both Northways have tackled very grim and obtuse topics. Incredipede has slavery and horrific mutation (with visible bones and muscles. yuck!). Rebuild 2's art style and some content was very dark too. They're not strangers to topics of a grizzly nature. This element is not nearly as bad.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Rakarr » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:11 pm

RafeHaab wrote:Wow. All these people are against freedom of choice? I did not realize the world was so screwed.
...
And yes, this has been turned into a game of "whack the prude", indeed. Remember, you can't force equality without turning it into opression. You can be angry about my views all you want. I will continue asking for this.


I'm sorry, have you actually been reading the thread for the last few pages? There's some pretty respectful debate and exploration of the potential issues going on. And yet again you waltz in with the attitude that you're being ganged up on and we're trying to take away your freedoms. Throughout the thread I and others have been arguing about the merits and repercussions of your suggestion itself (admittedly with some aggression here and there) but you just seem intent on villifying everybody who disagrees with you and reducing their arguments to "No free choice for you!"

It's a more complicated issue than that and you are delibarately, childishly oversimplifying because we won't just step back and let you have your way without disagreement. I do not think you have listened to even one argument that has been made against your proposal - just come up with excuse after excuse why we're all terrible and ruining the sensibilities of your children.

We've all given reasons as to why we do or don't think that such a toggle would be a good inclusion, but you're intent on making everyone personally responsible for your enjoyment of the game and protecting your children. If that's what you want to reduce the argument to, fine. The bottom line is, what your children are exposed to is your responsiblity, not Sarah Northway's. If you don't like it, don't play the game around them.

Your suggestion that LGBT themes are going to be so visible that your children will immediately zero in on them is silly. As you keep falling back on the idea that it will be lit up like a giant billboard of flashing lights without acknowledging any reasoning to the contrary - just like you avoid addressing any real arguments in this thread - I have to wonder if you are really concerned about this issue or whether are you just using it as cheap ammunition to try and win your argument.

Alternatively, perhaps you are just deliberately prolonging this to try to get a rise out of us. "Trolling", if you will. Such an accusation is well and truly overused on the Internet, and often just to dismiss another's viewpoints. But in this case I really am wondering.




By the way, why is LGTB capitalized ingame? My children would not be asking about its meaning if it was not so blatant about being different to the other words in the characters backgrounds.


It's an acronym. I also stand to be corrected if I am wrong, but I really don't think the actual word "LGBT" appears in the game at all. If it does, and your argument hinges on this? Then feel free to enact my earlier suggestion and to tell them it means something completely different, just as you do when you tell them the blood is red paint. It is not a practice you should be a stranger to.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby nskral » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:12 am

Well pretty long posts over there, I just wanted to say I also want there should be a way to block the theme. Even it is not going to be at least I want to decide my own character(hero, leader?) do, I want him have buddies but I don't want to get him married with other men. I am also super lazy and I probably won't read a longer post than this, just in case if someone want to say something to me.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Rakarr » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:08 am

nskral wrote:Well pretty long posts over there, I just wanted to say I also want there should be a way to block the theme. Even it is not going to be at least I want to decide my own character(hero, leader?) do, I want him have buddies but I don't want to get him married with other men. I am also super lazy and I probably won't read a longer post than this, just in case if someone want to say something to me.


I think my opinion on turning the themes off has been well established by now, but I definitely agree that the player should be able to choose what happens with their own character. I don't think you're in any danger of your character being forced into a gay relationship, though.
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