Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Talk about Sarah's upcoming game in the Rebuild series.

Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby RafeHaab » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:52 am

I found out Sara really wants to please the LGTB people out there by ading backgrounds and features. That is wonderful news if you are into that sort of thing. But there are people with more conservative views, and maybe a feature to block the theme if you do not want it in your game could be added.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Rakarr » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:02 am

Is that really necessary? I mean, I get that choice is always a good thing, and that people should be able to disable content that they find objectionable. But LGBT people exist out there and can't just be turned off. And if Ms Northway is including them in her game so as to promote their interests, doesn't slapping a mute button on them defeat the purpose?

My understanding is that the LGBT stuff would play out through the survivor characters, and one of the intriguing things about the game is the diversity of those characters. I think it would be a bit tragic to just be able to go "Nope, I don't like this person or their plot line. Time to block it!" Unless you're going to be able to block other themes, too. And where do you draw the line? Forgive the comparison, but would you find it acceptable to be able to be able to "block" survivors because they were black, or asian, or a woman? How about switching off straight characters because some people don't want to see them in their game?

Again, I understand your request is to do with thematic content, as likened to, say, violence or sex in a movie. But I don't think that's a very fair way of looking at it when you consider that these are real people who just want to accepted as normal, not treated with some sort of content advisory warning.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Rakarr » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:09 am

Personally, my concern is that the inclusion of these issues may come off as preachy, rather than just a natural inclusion into the game. I've already had one survivor accost me with her story of being intersex by announcing it in a very accusatory way, as though daring me to have a problem with it. I don't, and I can't say I really appreciated it being framed in that way.

On a slightly less overt note, a gay survivor I encountered made sure to tell me about how his country didn't treat gay people very well. I mean, I find it hard to know which approach is best, because certainly these are real issues that LGBT face, so it rings true in that sense... and I guess to write about and bring visibility to these issues, you inevitably have to shine a flashlight on them. Again, I'm just wary of of it being preachy, especially considering the game isn't about these issues to begin with.

Furthermore, I am concerned that these LGBT characters are being reduced to that one aspect of themselves, when everyone else (presumably straight, unless they're just not saying?) gets to be defined by their job or other personality trait. I'm not entirely convinced as to how well that furthers the cause, although it's surely better than filling the game solely with straight and gender-normal people. Then again, the survivor backgrounds are supposed to be fairly simple, one-note affairs, so I'm probably over-thinking it.

Personally, I'd be happy just to see two survivors of the same gender able to marry like the rest of them (possibly this is in the game, but I haven't seen it ) and maybe a few transgender survivors that don't act like they expect me to have a problem with it.

Anyway, I'm not criticising the current approach, because as I said I'm not really sure what approach is best anyway. My suggestion to "normalise" LGBT people could easily be seen as trivialising the struggles they face, or encouraging them to modify their behaviour to suit society rather than the other way around, and I definitely wouldn't want to give that impression. I'm far from an expert on these issues.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby jgf1123 » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:34 am

One sign of privilege is when someone says not to talk about or change topic X because they're fine they way things are. See #1 here
http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-your ... te-you_p2/
The rest of the article expounds on the thesis that many interpersonal problems are because of power, who has it and who doesn't.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby RafeHaab » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:18 pm

jgf1123 wrote:One sign of privilege is when someone says not to talk about or change topic X because they're fine they way things are. See #1 here
http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-your ... te-you_p2/
The rest of the article expounds on the thesis that many interpersonal problems are because of power, who has it and who doesn't.


"You Assumed That Because You Were OK With a Situation, Everybody Was"

Thar article is right. Just because Sarah and the first answerer in this post are ok with sexual themes, should we all be ok with them too?
Back to the "playing rebuild in front of children" point, I think I can explain the red splats in the screen as just red pixels, zombies as fantasy monsters, and since this game does not show any real violence in it, I'm saved from explaining why I'm stealing that block from another faction. But what about children reading words like "transgender" or "lgtb" while their parents play? How do you deal with that if you think they are not ready yet?

No Sarah, you are not deciding that in my family. Get me a button to block sexual themes, please. It is not so hard to do, since we already have "on/off" buttons for rivers and oceans.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Mike313 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:40 pm

RafeHaab wrote:Back to the "playing rebuild in front of children" point, I think I can explain the red splats in the screen as just red pixels, zombies as fantasy monsters, and since this game does not show any real violence in it, I'm saved from explaining why I'm stealing that block from another faction. But what about children reading words like "transgender" or "lgtb" while their parents play? How do you deal with that if you think they are not ready yet?


There's really a lot more than these issues that make this game less than child friendly, even if you ignore the blood. There are some fairly graphic descriptions of violence, and let's not forget that Gustav occasionally brings around caravans of prostitutes. Really, any LGTB mentions in the game would seem to rank pretty low on the "think of the children!" scale relative to that.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Ophryon » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:46 pm

RafeHaab wrote:Get me a button to block sexual themes, please.

I used to think like you; that LGTB was an abnormal kinky fetish. Even after I was all proud of myself for becoming more open-minded, I would still joke at parties about which type of their sex acts was closer to "normal" sex.

Then I finally understood what I a jerk I had been.

It isn't about sex. It's about love and human beings and recognizing that you fall on only one small part of a spectrum. The people you are marginalizing aren't "into" that sort of thing; they are that sort of thing. I trust Sarah will get it right, so you can let go of your fear that the game will become riddled with gay porn.

Given the chance to "rebuild" civilization, would you banish anyone who identified as LGTB, condemning them to die horribly just because you think they're icky? Or force them to hide in shame and silence if they stay, even while they fight by your side to defend your home?

If we must have an on/off switch...make it an in-game Policy, so it's very clear what you are choosing to do.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Ashilana » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:08 pm

Ophryon wrote:If we must have an on/off switch...make it an in-game Policy, so it's very clear what you are choosing to do.


Such a policy would fit with a few of the factions and government choices... but it would definitely make the game more depressing.

Would some survivors lie so they could be recruited by a leader? And if they could lie, might they get caught later and exiled? I guess it would be realistic and I have to admit I have pondered this particular scenario when watching zombie flicks, but seeing that choice in game would be pretty darn creepy.

I was surprised by the sex roles policy when I first encountered it in game (especially since my choice seemed to make an allied faction attack me). I always try and be peaceful, but that time it descended into full out war. I will admit the outcome was interesting, but I am not sure this game needs a policy that ramps that type of choice up a notch to actually exiling or excluding people.
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Ophryon » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:50 pm

Thank you for your well-considered thoughts but I wasn't seriously advocating adding an exclusion option to the game. It was more a Swiftian proposal to illustrate the harshness of the OP's request (however unintentional that harshness may have been).
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Re: Let's be really, really tolerant to each other.

Postby Ashilana » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:01 pm

Ophryon wrote:Thank you for your well-considered thoughts but I wasn't seriously advocating adding an exclusion option to the game. It was more a Swiftian proposal to illustrate the harshness of the OP's request (however unintentional that harshness may have been).


I could tell you weren't being serious about the policy... but I couldn't bring myself to discuss the original idea of a toggle that would erase people. It was just too horrific.
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