too much hate for The Last Judgement Gang?

Talk about Sarah's upcoming game in the Rebuild series.

too much hate for The Last Judgement Gang?

Postby falcore91 » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:47 am

I appreciate that no one likes a zealot who uses their faith to oppress others. The Last Judgement Gang are very natural antagonists. However, I think that they have been given a bit too much hate so far, particularly considering some of the other factions we have met and the behavior which is implied to them. I envision the LJG to be a little less Westboro Baptist Church and a little more SOA myself. The following is a possible prelude to the first encounter of the gang as described in Rebuild 3, where they are seen dragging a survivor behind them on a motorcycle. Hopefully it's readable.

The muscular biker wearing a priest's garb under his leather cut killed the engine of his motorcycle as he approached the intersection. The area appeared to be deserted except for a few other motorcyclists wearing similar marks of the clergy, surrounding a man on his knees with a bag over his head and flex cuffs on his wrists and ankles.

A truck pulled up beside the biker-priest, and a man from the cab helped a few woman out of the bed. They looked incredibly tired, and thin. They had been out on their own for a long time, and it showed.

The priest marched up to the captive man and removed his hood. The man was gagged, and had a panicked look on his face. He just about went berserk when he saw the women approaching. "Is this him?" asked the priest. The women nodded without hesitation.

The priest looked down on the man, and said, "These women say that you were traveling with them. They say that, one night, you tried to take advantage of a child traveling with them. Upon seeing you another man who was with your group attempted to stop you. You killed him, took most of the group's food, and fled. I am going to remove your gag now. Please address these charges."

His gag removed, the captive man took several gasping breaths. Looking around, he made a calculated bet. "Alright, it's true and I'm sorry. Look, it's just so crazy out here, I lost my head. You guys should know as well as anyone, weren't Catholic priests famous for touching little...." the rest of his thought was cut off by the priest smashing a ringed hand across his race. Another biker replaced the gag.

"I've heard enough. Brothers Davis and Cal, please escort these women back to our home. Make sure they are comfortably situated. They don't need to see this."

The women were loaded back into the truck and driven off. The priest took a knee by the captive man, who was beginning to show signs of recovery from the punch, and grabbed his chin firmly. "Now listen here," said the priest, "God has brought down judgement for the sins of all humanity, corrupted priests included. He has looked upon us, those who spite his name and defile the opportunity he has given us, and decided we are not ready for his return."

"It is said that the most vile corner of hell is reserved for Satan and those who commit treachery. I think it is only fitting that we should prepare you in this life for what you are going to receive in the next. I'm afraid that we will need to keep you gagged, your screams would attract too much undead attention. I guess we will just have to use our imaginations."

One of the cyclists tied a chain around the wrists of the captive man while the other two held him firm. He showed a wild fear and pleading in his eyes, and struggled greatly. The other end of the chain was secured to the back of the priest's motorcycle. The vengeful motorcycle riders, terrifying as the four horsemen themselves, took off with the condemned man dragging behind them. As they rounded a corner the priest noticed what appeared to be a well-organized group of scavengers. He suspected they belonged to another camp on the far side of town. Well, this was one way to make a first impression.
falcore91
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:06 am

Re: too much hate for The Last Judgement Gang?

Postby Shining Hector » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:37 am

I get the impression they're getting less antagonistic as the game progresses. There's even talk that policies and churches might actually make them not want to slay you on sight.

Honestly I think they still suffer a bit from being the designated villains with no redeemable qualities or possibility of peaceful coexistence in RB2 more than anything, and they haven't really fully caught up yet to their new role as simply one faction among many. Yeah, all the factions have the potential to basically make a lot of sense in some ways, are a bit odd but mostly harmless in other ways, and then be downright crazy and dangerous in a few aspects. There's no reason Last Judgment can't be like that, too.

It's what bugs me a bit about having the Pig Farmers as a faction, as they're basically objectively evil by default, so lots of people are going to fight them every game no matter what, on general principle. It's really hard to try and empathize with a cannibal. I found the Mannerites in Wasteland 2 to be a surprising exception to that rule, though, so I guess anything's possible if the quest lines are fleshed out right. Eh, maybe that was a poor choice of words.
Shining Hector
 
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:51 am

Re: too much hate for The Last Judgement Gang?

Postby Blind Squirrel » Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:01 pm

Shining Hector wrote:I guess anything's possible if the quest lines are fleshed out right. Eh, maybe that was a poor choice of words.


Now, now, it's nothing we can't all stomach.

I agree with both of you. LJG and the Pig Farmers currently have the depth of pro wrestling villians. It's a problem we can all sink our teeth into.
Even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while.
Blind Squirrel
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:02 pm

Re: too much hate for The Last Judgement Gang?

Postby DesertPlah » Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:22 pm

I for one appreciate that there's a villian I don't have much guilt in annihilating. I always have to wait til one of the factions pulls the old "you didn't give us food so we're gonna shoot at you" event before I go after somebody. I'm all for diplomacy until the moment somebody points a gun at my people.
DesertPlah
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:31 am

Re: too much hate for The Last Judgement Gang?

Postby Blind Squirrel » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:41 am

I feel more involved in a game when I get to make meaningful choices about the outcome. Cannibal = genocide target. What if sometimes the Pig Farmers just raided abandoned farms for livestock, or sometimes rounded up neighborhood pets,or sometimes ate people, or sometimes just inded their own business and raised pigs, no matter what the neighborhood rumors say. You get to decide how much sketchy behavior you are willing to tolerate and for how long. A little Realpolitik, as it were.
Even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while.
Blind Squirrel
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:02 pm

Re: too much hate for The Last Judgement Gang?

Postby Woolfe » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:03 pm

Blind Squirrel wrote:I feel more involved in a game when I get to make meaningful choices about the outcome. Cannibal = genocide target. What if sometimes the Pig Farmers just raided abandoned farms for livestock, or sometimes rounded up neighborhood pets,or sometimes ate people, or sometimes just inded their own business and raised pigs, no matter what the neighborhood rumors say. You get to decide how much sketchy behavior you are willing to tolerate and for how long. A little Realpolitik, as it were.


Aye. You have to find out if they are cannibals or not. And the benefits if they aren't could be quite high.

You could do this for all factions. A "Good" "Evil" and maybe "neutral" stance on them all.

Pig Farmers - if Evil - Cannibals etc. If good, they are ACTUALLY Pig farmers. If Neutral... well I don't know but yeah.

LJG - Evil, they are the wonderful raping, murderous bastards we all like to slaughter. Neutral, they are not raping murderous bastards but they have very specific expectations. Women are to be "protected" from danger, including hard choices etc. Good, they believe in protecting women and however they will not directly restrict freedoms. etc

And not just the obvious ones. Imagine Evil St Michaels or Evil Luddites... Muhahahhaha :D
Woolfe
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:14 pm

Re: too much hate for The Last Judgement Gang?

Postby Shining Hector » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:43 pm

Randomized alignment for factions would shake things up a bit. Maybe their initial disposition towards you, too. Evil folks might be friendly from the start in hopes of hitching their wagon to yours early, while good ones might be mistrustful after bad encounters and start off hostile, and they might be equally likely to have either stance to keep you on your toes. You'd then have the opportunity to learn more about the factions as the game progresses, possibly adding stuff like a spy on faction mission for scavengers and/or chat up the locals for leaders, as well as random events and requests. From there you could confront factions about actions you witnessed or overheard, find common ground to negotiate peace, etc. Then you'd have to decide by yourself each game whether to be friend to all living things, destroy anyone who challenges you, try to really get to know people before allying or attacking them, etc. I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement, but it would add a lot of depth to the factions, which lots of people seem to be clamoring for already.
Shining Hector
 
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:51 am

Re: too much hate for The Last Judgement Gang?

Postby luisdiego30 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:25 pm

Shining Hector wrote:It's what bugs me a bit about having the Pig Farmers as a faction, as they're basically objectively evil by default, so lots of people are going to fight them every game no matter what, on general principle. It's really hard to try and empathize with a cannibal. I found the Mannerites in Wasteland 2 to be a surprising exception to that rule, though, so I guess anything's possible if the quest lines are fleshed out right. Eh, maybe that was a poor choice of words.


The pig farmer though could just only eat people who are serious criminals.
luisdiego30
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:07 pm


Return to Rebuild 3: Gangs of Deadsville